A few questions

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Maverick_Kenwei
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A few questions

Post by Maverick_Kenwei » Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:45 pm

So I’ve seen the VMFAT-501 from Beaufort, VMFA-211 and VFA-122 and VMX-1 from Yuma, and VMFA-121 from Iwakuni and because there’re so many demos, I was told that VMFAT-501 is the only official demo but I’m not sure about VMFA-121 and the ones from Yuma because VMFA-121 also participated in Singapore airshow back then. I have also seen AV-8 demo from cherry point and Yuma but I don’t know if they’re actual demos that fly elsewhere too.
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Post by RyanS » Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:13 pm

I don't see a question in there :)

I think you're asking what Marine Corps units are the 'official' demo teams?

As far as I have always heard, any Marine Corps squadron is able to perform a Lightning or Harrier or Osprey or whatever demo. They don't have any specific demo units, aircraft, or pilots. As the demo profiles are non-aerobatic, they don't need to get an aerobatic card for the pilot (as opposed to the Navy and Air Force teams).
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Post by Maverick_Kenwei » Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:35 pm

I seen the VMFAT-501 F-35b demo perform at cherry point airshow and the VMFA-121 at Singapore but the others like VMFA-122 are only able to perform at their home base so I don’t know if they’re in fact real demo.
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Post by Adam » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:40 am

Ryan - hasn't Beaufort's one has been aerobatic since 2019?




Macerick Kenwei - I don't know the status and history of Yuma's F-35B demos but saying they can "only able to perform at their home base" seems like flawed logic. Just because a unit hasn't done something yet doesn't necessarily mean they are unable to. Operations come first, they might just be busy. Until 2020, Iwakuni's F-35s were in exactly the same position as Yuma's and had only ever performed at Iwakuni. Then a good reason came along for them to go further afield, so they did.

In any case, it's worth seperating what happens in the Pacific to what happens on the continental US. The purpose of airshow participation in the USA is to recruit and to entertain. The purpose of airshow participation in the Pacific is big picture stuff - re-enforcing diplomatic ties and selling aircraft. Singapore is trialling the F-35B for its air force, so make no mistake, the US DOD was going to get an F-35B to that show, regardless of what conventions needed to be broken. Iwakuni's airshow participation reflects nothing more than the US DOD's foreign policy objectives at that particular point in time.
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Post by Maverick_Kenwei » Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:27 pm

I was kind of concerned if the ones at Yuma can perform elsewhere other than their home base, it would pretty much be pointless since we already got an F35B demo team that can fly toward different show sites in the US. And if there’re already a F35B demo based in Iwakuni, why need a separate one from Singapore? Yes, the more display team, the better but it’s much like the PACAF Viper demo where they can just have 1 demo from the Pacific Air Force to participate in the pacific regions…
Last edited by Maverick_Kenwei on Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by RyanS » Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:31 pm

Adam wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:40 am Ryan - hasn't Beaufort's one has been aerobatic since 2019?
Yeah, I originally only mentioned Harriers and Ospreys as those are the main 'traveling' USMC demos in the US but added Lightnings at the last second. I remember Beaufort made a BIG deal about their demo and the pilot chosen to fly it that year so I'm pretty sure he was certified during practices but then only performed at that one show(?). Yuma's F-35B demo earlier in 2019 was slightly aerobatic but not the same profile at all - reinforcing that as far as USMC demos go there is VERY little consistency.
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Post by Maverick_Kenwei » Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:48 pm

I have seen videos of the F35B demo at cherry point as well and I’m pretty sure it’s VMFAT-501 F35B
Last edited by Maverick_Kenwei on Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Maverick_Kenwei » Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:02 pm

Adam wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:40 am In any case, it's worth seperating what happens in the Pacific to what happens on the continental US. The purpose of airshow participation in the USA is to recruit and to entertain. The purpose of airshow participation in the Pacific is big picture stuff - re-enforcing diplomatic ties and selling aircraft. Singapore is trialling the F-35B for its air force, so make no mistake, the US DOD was going to get an F-35B to that show, regardless of what conventions needed to be broken. Iwakuni's airshow participation reflects nothing more than the US DOD's foreign policy objectives at that particular point in time.
I know there’s actually a PACAF viper demo team who’s also base in the pacific, yet, it travels to different show sites to perform Airshows…
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Post by Adam » Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:04 am

Maverick_Kenwei wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:02 pm
Adam wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:40 am In any case, it's worth seperating what happens in the Pacific to what happens on the continental US. The purpose of airshow participation in the USA is to recruit and to entertain. The purpose of airshow participation in the Pacific is big picture stuff - re-enforcing diplomatic ties and selling aircraft. Singapore is trialling the F-35B for its air force, so make no mistake, the US DOD was going to get an F-35B to that show, regardless of what conventions needed to be broken. Iwakuni's airshow participation reflects nothing more than the US DOD's foreign policy objectives at that particular point in time.
I know there’s actually a PACAF viper demo team who’s also base in the pacific, yet, it travels to different show sites to perform Airshows…
Yes, I've seen it many times while attending shows out there. But like Iwakuni's F-35 deployment to Singapore, it is only used as a foreign policy tool and I imagine almost all its appearances are ordered by the DOD at a very high level.

When I lived in southeast Asia, the US military did demos at most of the big airshows in the region, including USMC MV-22Bs and F-35Bs, PACAF F-16s and C-17s, USAF B-1s and more. The US DOD would decide, for whatever reason, that there should be an American presence at a specific event, but sending an official demo team usually wasn't a practical option. So instead, they would find a normal aircraft from a normal Pacific-based squadron, or one from an aircraft carrier that happened to be passing, or one from a US mainland squadron that was on temporary deployment to the area, and get them to do a simple demo instead. But - and this is the important point - even though they did a demo, that doesn't make the squadron a "demo team". It was just a normal pilot from a normal squadron, doing a short, simple demo as a one-off, because someone at the Pentagon told them they had to. I'm pretty sure that's what happened with Iwakuni's F-35Bs in Singapore.

This is why I said earlier that if you're trying to understand the structure of US demo teams, forget about the Pacific. What happens out there doesn't follow the normal rules.
Last edited by Adam on Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Maverick_Kenwei » Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:22 am

Ohhh, ok. I get it now
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