EAA Airventure Oshkosh 2022

Discussion relating to 2022 airshows/fly-ins/exercises/other events. Post news before the event and post your photos afterwards! Please create only one thread per event.
IDF783
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Post by IDF783 » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:33 pm

Kieran wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:45 pm As for the airshow, I think this was the worst I've ever seen it and Oshkosh's is usually pretty bad compared to other events. The USAF 75th anniversary was a total disaster. No bombers, no transports other than the pretty average C-17 Demo. Only one A-10 doing a simulated airfield attack where I remember four one year. No tactical demonstrations from any aircraft. I thought it was really poor.

In contrast, the Navy stole the show. Growler and F-35C demos were outstanding and it was great to see the Navy Hawkeye pair. They really did show up the Air Force.

But EAA really need to think about where their priorities are at. Too many of the same old aerobatic performers that get too much of the spotlight compared to wasteful, high passes from the warbirds. It was great to see Jerry Yagen's warbirds fly during the show but they were too far away for the crowd to truly appreciate. Instead, we got several passes from T-6's and Yaks. Likewise, two passes from the F-86 and MiG-17 'dogfight' compared to endless formation passes from the soulless L-39's and S.11's. EAA Warbirds' prerogative is to make sure we 'keep 'em flying' but how can we do that if the Airboss isn't interested in letting these warbird pilots show off their aircraft to inspire the next generation?
I agree on not having any modern bombers, but I guess global operations stunted that.

Yeah, the Navy showed up! The F-35C and Growlers were awesome. I think the AF F-35A demo pilot (Kristin "Beo" Wolfe) really rocked the place. Impressive.

If you were there early enough on Saturday, 2 F-15s snuck in and did a few passes around 11AM. Too bad not part of the 75th commemoration, officially.

And I totally agree on the sleepy L-39's. They get way too much time.

Enjoyed the MiG-17 in the Sat night show portion.
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RyanS
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Post by RyanS » Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:53 pm

I very much agree - I love AirVenture in so many ways, but I felt a distinct lack of energy this year. The only 'must see' was the MiG-29, and because it was kept hush hush no one knew when it would show up, if it would even make it, or what it might do. This is why the big secrets are a totally unforced error on EAA's part - they build hype and then nothing can possibly fill those expectations.

The USAF 75th and daily themes were just a total waste of time. If you're talking about this massive celebration of the USAF, I am thinking back to awesome moments like the tanker parade or the bomber parade - things only seen at AirVenture. Get aircraft to do some combined thing that isn't just a standard cookie cutter demo. AETC day? Put up the heritage T-38s and T-6s for some low approaches. AMC day? The C-17 demo is obvious but what about a cargo heritage that other shows do? The F-35A demo flying a bunch of days in a row is cool, but it isn't unique or special.

The running joke of the week was that it was nice of the Navy to turn out in such force to celebrate the USAF's anniversary. I enjoyed the Navy demos; I think they are very creative and perfectly suited for the non-aerobatic box. I just wish the USAF had showed any interest in actually making this a big event.

There were almost no good military arrivals at any point during the week. It felt like previous years had multiple jets shooting approaches each day, but this year we got one low approach from the F-16, a few from the T-38s, and three no-afterburner pity passes from the F-15s that flew for Dayton. We spend a LOT of our time filming the arrivals on the big runway and we just didn't see nearly as much cool stuff as we have in the past. Hell even the GA stuff was on a weird schedule. There was only one day with any backup on the taxiway, everything else was spread out pretty evenly. I guess that's what a week of solid good weather does?

Then there are the warbird segments. These have always been just so frustrating to watch because they always get bogged down and then the coolest thing that they saved for the end gets cut short. Every year. So I appreciate that they tried a different tactic this year, but they didn't find the answer. Those weekend warbird segments were bad. I think we got one solo fast pass from the WWII fighters all week? That's just awful. Oh, and let's not point out the fact that Appleton had two B-29s, the B-24, a B-17, and B-25 just up the road...

I'm told the segments were organized by some trainee airbosses. I'm glad they are getting new people involved and they did some really good things (take offs on 36 and passes down the runway) but I think they need to assess the priorities for time. If they can't work out how to have the sky full of planes, pick some to feature and let them do cool stuff. Waiting for the T-6s to circle around and land on 36 while some of the rarest aircraft on earth overheat on the taxiway is unacceptable. It is ironic that the trainers and liaisons get their own focus shows, but the fighters that everyone wants to see get screwed.

I am not shitting on the trainers; I am glad they get to participate and I love that the liaisons get their own day to shine now. Even the helos! I got the first good photo of that Loach in 13 years I have watched it fly because it FINALLY got a pass down the runway. I was so pumped for that. But EAA needs to focus on getting the rare aircraft enough time to fly in a productive manner. Circling 2000 feet over the lake is a waste of everyone's time and money. If this is the future for warbirds at EAA then a lot of people are going to lose interest fast.

I did very much like the Cat Flight and the Navy demos. The MiG-29 did more than I expected. Nate Hammond buzzing around the fireworks was really awesome. I felt less suffocated by flippies this year, maybe due to the military demo slots? Or maybe I'm just used to it now.

The perfect metaphor for this year's show - normally my tradition is to keep my wristband on until all of my friends get home. This year that paper POS (which did fair better than I expected I'll admit) fell off by itself on Sunday before the show ended. Just not quite up to snuff.
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kalamazookid
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Post by kalamazookid » Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:29 pm

I guess I'll chime in with my thoughts on the flying. I'm normally only in attendance Monday-Wednesday and was able to stay through Thursday this year, so I have neither the benefit of knowing what the weekend flying is usually like nor what it was like this year (outside of the pics/video everyone posts here anyway).

From my standpoint, I saw more military planes in the air earlier in the week than I ever have at Oshkosh, and some of the arrivals were actually incorporated into the airshow this year- which was a big bonus for me. It's frustrating when you're looking at something all the way in Fightertown only to have a couple F-15s come in randomly at 10 a.m. and not be able to see them well (or at all). T-38s might not be everyone's thing, but it was cool to see some different paint schemes and we got a few missed approaches at least. I liked seeing the Growlers and F-35A arrival incorporated into the Monday show, and it was neat to see the C-17 arrival. The Indiana A-10s put on a nice show when they arrived as well. That said, there wasn't much military action outside of the demo teams - somewhat understandable given the world situation, but a bit of a letdown after all the USAF 75th Anniversary hype. I really enjoyed seeing the F-35A three days in a row and I think the show that was flown with it was great given the limitations of the box at Oshkosh. I would much rather see that than sit further away from the runway for a larger box - that would negate most of what makes an afternoon airshow at Oshkosh fun for me!

From a military standpoint, the Navy definitely stole the show. The Growlers and F-35C were excellent, and the Legacy Flights were top notch. The Navy has really improved the Legacy profile over the last few years. I can remember seeing some truly boring flights that were just two passes that were flown too high to be enjoyed, and these are significantly better. I'm glad the show committed to flying multiple demo teams on multiple days. If the Navy and Air Force are both there with a demo team, fly them both.

I've been frustrated with the warbird shows for years. I thought the Tuesday show was at least average for Oshkosh, though I wish we could have gotten solo passes each of the fighters and more than one pass in front of the crowd by the bombers. The low C-47 passes were excellent and I've really enjoyed seeing them showcased over the last few years. I also enjoyed jet day on Thursday despite the fact that I really don't have any interest in L-39s. The L-bird show is a good idea, but so poorly executed. Having the aircraft orbiting a half mile away at 1,500 feet doesn't showcase the aircraft at all and does a disservice to the pilots who put in the effort to fly in the show. Having aircraft flying right down the showline at 2,000 feet (or whatever it was) also isn't interesting. They need to get the planes down the runway and in front of the crowd, no matter what's flying. The arrival show in 2021 was vastly improved with the P-51 and Corsair flying around while the big formations get turned around. I'd love to see something like that again. Just please get airplanes down in line with the runway and at an altitude where people can see them well. The warbird shows would be vastly improved by making them more practical and less spectacle.

Personally, I think if they're going to do trainer/L-bird shows, they need to find a way to get fighters/bombers/transports in the show during another time slot - that's what people come to see. I think it's great to have the trainers/liaison aircraft showcased, especially since they seem to be ignored at most larger airshows. It's just tough to take when they are the only warbirds in the air on a particular day. The Cat Flight on the same day as the L-bird show, or a fighter acro or two, or a vintage jet demo are great ways to balance this. I still think about when I attended Monday-Wednesday during the "Year of the Fighter" and Warbirds of America put up exactly zero fighters during their Monday-Wednesday segments. That was a sad effort and I was pretty pissed about 30 minutes of L-birds that year.

The Grumman Cat Flight, F-35s, Growler, U-2, Tuesday warbird show, twilight MiG-17 demo and Heritage/Legacy Flights were the highlights for me. Seeing all four prop-driven Cats in the air together was really special for me as the original Air Zoo Cat Flight was a big part of the airshows I went to as a kid. Any opportunity to see a Tigercat do aerobatics is special and the Bearcat aerobatics were a nice bonus. The U-2 is always unique. I also really appreciated the mix of aircraft types and formations in the Legacy and Heritage Flights. This year was my first evening airshow at Oshkosh and it made me mad at myself for not making it a priority before. Great stuff!

The biggest thing to remember about Oshkosh is that it's as much fly-in and convention as it is an airshow. EAA has a wide range of sponsors and interests they have to highlight. That means certain parts of the airshow might not be as interesting if they don't align with our interests. As much as I would personally love to see an afternoon of entirely military demos/fly-by's and a massive warbird show, that probably isn't going to happen. EAA has to promote civil aviation and a lot of the aerobatic acts, showcases, etc. presumably help them do that. There are certain acts I look forward to, like Younkin, Aeroshell and Franklin, but like many of you, I find the flippies repetitive. Red Bull was fun on Monday, but less cool after seeing it three days in a row. I guess I've gotten so used to this over seven years that it doesn't bother me that much anymore.

Oshkosh is as much about looking as being on the flight line for me. I come to see the latest, greatest restorations in Vintage and Warbirds as much as I come for the airshow. Some of the highly anticipated warbird restorations didn't make it this year, but there were quite a few aircraft I don't normally get to see and I was glad to have had the opportunity to see them again.

I'm personally taking a year or two off from Oshkosh just because I want to do some other traveling, which will hopefully include a few airshows and museums. Overall, I enjoyed my experience this year and I would actually rate it as one of the better experiences I've had at Oshkosh. It's just time to go different places and see some different things, even if they might not be as unique or large as Oshkosh.
Last edited by kalamazookid on Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Sugar Bravo » Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:30 pm

NEAirMuseums wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:27 am Unfortunately the F-15s that buzzed the field around 11 today got me by surprise. What variant and squadron were they from?
I saw your unanswered question. It was the Louisiana Air National Guard. The 122nd Fighter Squadron, F-15C, "Bayou Militia" out of NAS JRB New Orleans.
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IDF783
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Post by IDF783 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:24 pm

Everyone made good points above on how this event can improve. I'm not a hard-core aviation enthusiast, but am an aviation fan. I've been attending EAA since 2016 with my sons. The shows over the years have ebbed and flowed in its strengths. I liked the special forces demo in '21 that included MV-22 and a C-130 unloading troops for a mock assault. Even though the F-35s showed up well this year in both USAF and Navy variants and I enjoyed every minute of it, the USAF 75th anniversary commemoration left a lot to be desired. Why not have the static ANG F-15 and F-16 just perform a few easy flat burner flybys? They had the Blues back in '17, why not try to get the T-Birds for this year's commemoration?

The night show is the same every year with lit planes and pyro shooting from the wings. I thought the drone show of '18 was super cool! They need to have more of those special and unique acts show up to mix it up. Aeroshell is always cool.

When was the last time they had an AV-8B? I hope they can get the Marines F-35B demo once it becomes more available.

The vast majority of the show's populace is the general public (relative aviation novices), families who bring their young kids that attend for the experience of it all. They get wowed by anything in the air, while enthusiasts on the other hand, may critique the same things vociferously. EAA markets the fly-in / AirVenture very well and ultimately the bottom line is cash flow and it seems this year's was record-breaking.
Last edited by IDF783 on Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RhinoIA
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Post by RhinoIA » Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:21 pm

IDF783 wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:24 pm They had the Blues back in '17, why not try to get the T-Birds for this year's commemoration?
I find it highly unlikely that any of the US teams will be back in a full-performance capacity similar to the TBirds in 2014 or Blues in 2017. The box encumbrances and limitations on available space and time makes their presence basically detrimental to the event as a whole, and makes it not worth while for the teams themselves to be there. You're more likely to see the quick 3 pass flyby in a transit to and from show sites the best chance to see them at Oshkosh.
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Adambadger88
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Post by Adambadger88 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:06 pm

Rest in Peace to Tom Poberezny. He died following a brief illness on July 25, 2022, the first day of AirVenture, and is survived by his wife Sharon and daughter Lesley. He was only 75 years old. He was an American aerobatic world champion, as well as chairman of the annual Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA) Fly-In and Convention from 1977 to 2011 and president of EAA from 1989 to 2010, presiding over a time period of expansive growth for the organization and convention. He succeeded his father, Paul Poberezny, who founded them in 1953.

Here is his tribute page on the forum:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6577&p=34049#p34049
Last edited by Adambadger88 on Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:10 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Post by Adambadger88 » Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:46 pm

The SUN ‘n FUN Aerospace Expo is thrilled to announce Dennis Dunbar as the new Director of Air Shows and Attractions. He most recently was the Director of Air Show Operations for EAA AirVenture Oshkosh.

Dunbar brings more than 20 years of air show management experience to SUN ‘n FUN. He has been involved in organizing hundreds of air shows and numerous other aerial events, ranging from fleet weeks to Super Bowls. Most recently, Dennis just wrapped up another record-setting year at AirVenture, where he was responsible for the air show at the annual convention of the Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA) in Oshkosh, Wisconsin for the last 10 years.

Read the Full Press Release Below:
https://flysnf.org/news/sun-n-fun-aeros ... tractions/
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srresquire
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Post by srresquire » Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:59 pm

A few C-17 shots I liked....always enjoy seeing this monster. I missed the C5 arrival as I was out by the warbirds
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Post by Dan Gagnon » Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:48 pm

Some stuff from the last day of AirVenture:
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