A question about retiring the F22?

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LavenderBirch
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A question about retiring the F22?

Post by LavenderBirch » Mon May 24, 2021 6:05 am

This is a 2 part question and I am quite confused.

- They are going to be retiring the F22 (according to the video I watched) by the 2030's. However, we did not sell our F22 because of the tech it had. How can this be true if it is apparently aging and the F35 can actually have a lower radar signature? Or is it possible that the F22 was just not sold to other countries because it took away from the F35 program / no one would buy it / it was no longer being produced?

- If we are retiring it, does that mean there is a 6th Generation fighter coming down the line, that the F35 is way better than what others say, or that it simply fills a role no longer needed?

Slightly convoluted but when I clicked the video I could not believe that "The Mighty F22" was being retired.

Apparently we are on the 6th Generation fighter that has broken many records already. That's... very hard to comprehend judging by the status of the F22 in the world of fighter jets.
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awal2049
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Post by awal2049 » Tue May 25, 2021 11:55 am

I can answer part 2. The Air Force is currently working on the next-generation air dominance (NGAD) program which is intended to replace or compliment both the F-22 and F-35. They have, by some accounts, already flown a prototype of a concept aircraft, but I think the fighter that will be fielded is years away. Generally, the Air Force announces a need for a new aircraft, companies (Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman, etc) will each build and present their prototype, and the Air Force will select a winner for mass production. All of this will be done publicly.

As for part 1, I would assume it has more to do with the secrecy of the tech than its capability. Selling them to other countries would open the door for potential adversaries to acquire it and use it against us (Iran has our F-14s). The military in general would rather dispose of the jets completely than let them fall into enemy hands. But there are a lot of politics than contribute to these decisions, so I don’t really have a clear answer.

The F-22 has been plagued by maintenance and aircraft availability issues for a while now, and on top of that, fewer were produced than intended due to cost issues. It isn’t that the Raptor isn’t an incredible airplane individually, but the Air Force needs a more reliable and maintainable platform.

The 2030’s is a long time from now. The military always plans its aircraft retirement, and each aircraft enters service with an intended service life than can be adjusted during its life. When it is shortened, people tend to assume there is something wrong with the aircraft, which may not be the case here. Plans and needs are constantly evolving.

Hope this helps.
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RyanS
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Post by RyanS » Thu May 27, 2021 1:49 pm

I have read several times that the reason the F-22 was not exported is because the systems in it are unencrypted and so anyone who gets access to it would have free access to all of the secretive coding. The F-35 is encrypted so there is less concern about it being out and about. Not sure how true that is, but it seems plausible. Remember the F-22's tech is actually pretty old at this point.

The talk of retiring the F-22 has to be viewed in context. It doesn't mean the F-22 isn't capable. I see it as an admission that trying to maintain a relatively small fleet is just too inefficient. A substantial chunk of the fleet has to be set aside for training, and then with maintenance woes there are even fewer aircraft available for actual operations. Every Raptor I have seen in the last 5+ years has looked BAD.

The aircraft need upgrades, but it's a hard sell to do all of the development and then install it on relatively few aircraft. This then makes the aircraft less useful, and a death spiral begins. If they had bought several hundred Raptors, I don't think we'd be hearing retirement talk because the fleet as a whole would be more useful.

At the same time, the future is all about electronic systems which need to be upgraded constantly. If we have something significantly better - the NGAD stuff and who knows what else in the black world - it probably makes a lot of sense to retire the F-22s and get a bigger fleet of more capable aircraft with modern systems architecture. The actual aircraft might look pretty similar actually; aerodynamics haven't changed!
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Ryan Sundheimer
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