My current setup:
- Adam Santic's Gear Setup.jpg (45.09 KiB) Viewed 1182 times
Thinking About Getting A Longer Lens. I need Help.
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Adambadger88
- Posts: 311
- Joined: Sat May 12, 2018 3:43 pm
Thinking About Getting A Longer Lens. I need Help.
Does anyone have any advice on what I should get? Any advice that you give me is much appreciated. I don't think my Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS US lens for my Canon EOS 60D is as long as I would like for ground to air photos. I'm seeking and learning more about types of lenses, possibly expanding to a 150-600mm or something similar. Which I think is perfect and even in post editing. I am a complete novice/amateur. I attend air shows for fun and enjoyment.
My current setup:
My current setup:
Last edited by Adambadger88 on Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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It mostly depends on your budget, there are 100-400s and 150-600s and some others that are in that range, all at different prices. In general you get what you pay for, but lenses last longer than bodies so they are more worth investing in. Lens reviews can tell you a lot so just find what you're willing to pay and see what can be had for that.
Stay away from teleconverters unless you are going to pair them with a very high quality lens also
Stay away from teleconverters unless you are going to pair them with a very high quality lens also
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Ryan Sundheimer
www.AirshowStuff.com
www.AirshowStuff.com
My own lens for my Nikon D7200 is Nikon's 70-300 IF-ED lens has been satisfactory for all but the most distant shots. Its reach can cut off parts of an aircraft while the aircraft is directly ahead if I'm lazy on the zoom ring, but getting the top of a diamond loop is pretty far away and requires some cropping to get good framing. My fear has always been that the short end of anything bigger than my 70-300 would be "not short enough," if you see what I mean; I have shots that were done in the 120-140mm range of focal length, so those would not have been feasible with a lens whose short end is 150mm. Maybe they would, maybe not; the 150 might not give me the free space around the subject to allow good framing by cropping, which I do all the time. I'm going to rent a 150-500 or 150-600 one of these days and see if I hit these self-imposed limits on the short end, because like you, I wouldn't mind a bit more reach at all for the most part.
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msleddogtom
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:59 pm
- Location: st.louis mo
While getting a long lens is sure an advantage and since you had said your at a novice /beginning level,take a little time and explore more options. Thats a heavy lens for a fast event that requires maneuverbility to swing that lens around and stay focused . Think speed depending on what you want to catch at an air show ,most aircraft you should be able to catch good and sharp with a 300mm except those speeding bullets jets that create vapor< For that we need focus, the abitlity to catch in focus at high speeds the speeding air craft !! Alot of the twist and turns can be caught up close as they come to the crowd and make their elusive sharp G's and the 600 will miss most as its hard to pull back ,zooming back out as they come closer and all you have left is 150mm and boom its gone again, ///. So think fast focus which could come from a lens or body and speed up where ever you can with focus , a smaller faster lens a 400mm zoom or a faster motor in the body of the camera will give you better control and faster focus cause its not working as hard on the body or lens and lighter gives you better controll to swing ,zoom ,twist, and manuever
As a beginner you will be constantly at the very longest end of a 600mm zoom before you catch up again on most fighter jets and thats a lot of weight to look straight up in the air holding focus..wHile im not against the 600mm zoom its a lot at a beginner lever> Maybe rent one 1st , there is national rental outfits that you can try one out first to get a feel.. Some other improvements might help also is in what choice do you use for focus mode as in single focus , continous focus ,field of view your camera has set for focusing , single point focus, 11 point focus , Choice of AF points for creative framing... continous focus is most helpful for sports , action the ability to focus on movement. How fast it focuses, once again you might need an upgrade in a camera to focus faster so it might be a 2 part solution a faster lens, and body might help even better than just a long lens... Think used also, used equipment to get you upgrades . Some people talk of fast lens as the amount of light that reaxches your camera from the lens, having a fast aperture but this is not what im talking about . All air shows are outside and having a fast aperture will give you a better iso so you can increase the speed of your shutter to stop action and reduce blur but to me fast focus is even more important. Theres usually enough light at airshows without having a fast aperture , so also look at frame counts per second in the body , how fast and and many you get in a burst this is where the upgrades come in the camera gear ... you need burst speed and fast focus
But before all that explore the important triangle of exposure, correct exposure . Shutter speed, shutter speed, shutter speed is vastly important at air shows of all the exposure modes shutter speed at an air show has the most importance... on blur , on sharpness each shutter speed plays a different role for the type of aircraft that you photogragh from stopping propellers to stopping the action of a speeding bullet.,every shutter speed plays a role. then make adjustments with your aperture from f2 to f32 and always remember never trust your in camera meter at an air show except full in frame slow moving planes< Know how to expose beyond Auto cause the sun will say overexposed mostly when a fast moving plane becomes less than quarter in your cameras field
As a beginner you will be constantly at the very longest end of a 600mm zoom before you catch up again on most fighter jets and thats a lot of weight to look straight up in the air holding focus..wHile im not against the 600mm zoom its a lot at a beginner lever> Maybe rent one 1st , there is national rental outfits that you can try one out first to get a feel.. Some other improvements might help also is in what choice do you use for focus mode as in single focus , continous focus ,field of view your camera has set for focusing , single point focus, 11 point focus , Choice of AF points for creative framing... continous focus is most helpful for sports , action the ability to focus on movement. How fast it focuses, once again you might need an upgrade in a camera to focus faster so it might be a 2 part solution a faster lens, and body might help even better than just a long lens... Think used also, used equipment to get you upgrades . Some people talk of fast lens as the amount of light that reaxches your camera from the lens, having a fast aperture but this is not what im talking about . All air shows are outside and having a fast aperture will give you a better iso so you can increase the speed of your shutter to stop action and reduce blur but to me fast focus is even more important. Theres usually enough light at airshows without having a fast aperture , so also look at frame counts per second in the body , how fast and and many you get in a burst this is where the upgrades come in the camera gear ... you need burst speed and fast focus
But before all that explore the important triangle of exposure, correct exposure . Shutter speed, shutter speed, shutter speed is vastly important at air shows of all the exposure modes shutter speed at an air show has the most importance... on blur , on sharpness each shutter speed plays a different role for the type of aircraft that you photogragh from stopping propellers to stopping the action of a speeding bullet.,every shutter speed plays a role. then make adjustments with your aperture from f2 to f32 and always remember never trust your in camera meter at an air show except full in frame slow moving planes< Know how to expose beyond Auto cause the sun will say overexposed mostly when a fast moving plane becomes less than quarter in your cameras field
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I can't recommend renting enough to try out some different lenses to see what works best for you. I rent them all the time - to see what I might want to buy, because I've found one I like but don't want to pony up the cash for it for how often I'll use it, or just as a treat because I want to try something different or use a really nice lens for a weekend. I've used both BorrowLenses.com and Lensrentals.com and have had great experience with both of them.
I use a Nikon APS-C body - I started with a 70-300 as well but after that first show I really wanted to be able to get closer. Here are a few thoughts on the focal lengths I've tried (I don't find the speed/aperture too important, and image quality has always been just fine for me as a hobbyist so I don't have any specific comments on those) -
200-500mm - this is the first one I tried and I wasn't even thinking about the wide end - 200mm was much too long especially on a crop body...many facepalm moments trying to capture the Snowbirds.
80-400mm - I found this was still a bit too long at 80mm for me, for things like the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds - trying to capture both the plane and the pyro in the good ol' "Walls of Fire" - and taxiing aircraft when close to the taxiway...but your mileage may vary depending on the show setup, how close you are, etc.
60-600mm - this has become my go-to and I rent it for every show, the extra 20mm of breathing room on the wide end is great (I do end up taking quite a few photos between 60-80mm) and I really like the 600mm reach.
A couple other thoughts -
A big reason I would suggest renting - in addition to seeing what works best as far as focal range - is ergonomics. Weight and size of course - but also consider how much you need to rotate the zoom ring to go through the whole focal range. This is something I hadn't even thought about until I tried that 200-500, I felt like I had to crank on the zoom ring for days just to get through 300mm of range - and I certainly couldn't do it quickly enough to be very dynamic with it following a plane as it approached and passed. That left my wrist and arm really fatigued very early in the show.
As I started using longer lenses I always had the urge to zoom all the way in and start hammering the shutter as soon as I could see the aircraft in the frame. This led to much disappointment - that gives you a lot of atmosphere and potentially heat to shoot through so a lot of those photos were unusable. When I had a camera with a small buffer it also led to the buffer being full by the time the aircraft was close enough to actually get decent pictures. Just something to think if you take a longer lens for a spin. Even now I have to remind myself that if I need to use all 600mm just to get the plane in the frame it's probably still too far away
.
If you're going to a show for the full weekend - try to rent a couple and give one a try each day to give yourself some more real-time thoughts on your preferences.
Good luck!
I use a Nikon APS-C body - I started with a 70-300 as well but after that first show I really wanted to be able to get closer. Here are a few thoughts on the focal lengths I've tried (I don't find the speed/aperture too important, and image quality has always been just fine for me as a hobbyist so I don't have any specific comments on those) -
200-500mm - this is the first one I tried and I wasn't even thinking about the wide end - 200mm was much too long especially on a crop body...many facepalm moments trying to capture the Snowbirds.
80-400mm - I found this was still a bit too long at 80mm for me, for things like the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds - trying to capture both the plane and the pyro in the good ol' "Walls of Fire" - and taxiing aircraft when close to the taxiway...but your mileage may vary depending on the show setup, how close you are, etc.
60-600mm - this has become my go-to and I rent it for every show, the extra 20mm of breathing room on the wide end is great (I do end up taking quite a few photos between 60-80mm) and I really like the 600mm reach.
A couple other thoughts -
A big reason I would suggest renting - in addition to seeing what works best as far as focal range - is ergonomics. Weight and size of course - but also consider how much you need to rotate the zoom ring to go through the whole focal range. This is something I hadn't even thought about until I tried that 200-500, I felt like I had to crank on the zoom ring for days just to get through 300mm of range - and I certainly couldn't do it quickly enough to be very dynamic with it following a plane as it approached and passed. That left my wrist and arm really fatigued very early in the show.
As I started using longer lenses I always had the urge to zoom all the way in and start hammering the shutter as soon as I could see the aircraft in the frame. This led to much disappointment - that gives you a lot of atmosphere and potentially heat to shoot through so a lot of those photos were unusable. When I had a camera with a small buffer it also led to the buffer being full by the time the aircraft was close enough to actually get decent pictures. Just something to think if you take a longer lens for a spin. Even now I have to remind myself that if I need to use all 600mm just to get the plane in the frame it's probably still too far away
.If you're going to a show for the full weekend - try to rent a couple and give one a try each day to give yourself some more real-time thoughts on your preferences.
Good luck!
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Adambadger88
- Posts: 311
- Joined: Sat May 12, 2018 3:43 pm
Thank you all for your help and advice. I just purchased a Sigma 150-600MM F5-6.3 DG OS HSM | C. https://www.sigmaphoto.com/150-600mm-f5-6-3-dg-os-hsm-c
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It's great that you're looking to enhance your gear for air show photography! Considering your interest in ground-to-air shots, a 150-600mm lens is a fantastic choice. It provides substantial reach, allowing you to capture detailed shots even from a distance. Brands like Sigma and Tamron offer excellent options in this range.
Since you're a novice, it might be helpful to explore lenses with image stabilization for smoother shots, especially at longer focal lengths. Additionally, renting a lens before making a purchase could be beneficial to ensure it meets your specific needs and preferences.
Happy shooting at the air shows, and may your new lens capture amazing moments in the sky!
PS It's a shorter answer compared to the others but still useful I think and hope
Since you're a novice, it might be helpful to explore lenses with image stabilization for smoother shots, especially at longer focal lengths. Additionally, renting a lens before making a purchase could be beneficial to ensure it meets your specific needs and preferences.
Happy shooting at the air shows, and may your new lens capture amazing moments in the sky!
PS It's a shorter answer compared to the others but still useful I think and hope
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I too attend the air shows just because I love them. I have 5 or 6 that are close enough to my house this year I can do as weekend trips and then AirVenture for almost a week. I just returned from the Guardians of Freedom 2024 airshow in Wichita Falls, Texas. I shot with a Canon 1DX Mark II with a Sigma 60-600mm F4.5-6.3 DG OS HSM. I use a Black Rapid Dual Camera harness and was surprised that it never felt too bad carrying it. I will agree with everyone else that it is a heavy lens to shoot with, but I don't regret using it at all. I may end up in Louisiana for the Red, White, and Blue Air Show this weekend. My goal is to improve as much as possible before AirVenture in July. I'll share some pros and cons of it. Of course, keep in mind I am not a pro by any stretch of the imagination so all of these are very subjective I think. Most of the cons were self-induced more than likely.
My prior long lens was a Canon 100-400.
Pros:
1) Great range. The ability to shoot from 60 to 600 with one lens is amazing.
2) Image quality is good. With a better photographer, I'm sure it would be even better than what I got.
Cons:
1) It is heavy. It never felt too bad when wearing my set-up (consisting of a 1DX II with the Sigma lens and a 6D II with my 16-35mm for a total of about 17 lbs), but if I was shooting for a long period of time, there were a few times I felt my arm shaking from trying to hold it up (at the 600mm end). I was parked a mile from the flight line and even walking with it didn't feel bad. I do always hold the tripod foot on the Sigma though. That was all day of. Sunday morning I woke up sore and still some sore on Monday so it was definitely something I was not used to carrying. For me, most airshow shooting is aim the lens, pan with the plane for a few seconds to try to get that perfect shot, then rest again until the next pass so the weight for the most part is acceptable. I shot 5,000 photos in one day so way overshot on some sequences, thus holding the lens up longer than I needed to. One thing for me to learn is to be more selective and thoughtful of what photos I want before I start.
2) I was at first very disappointed when I got home and looked at the photos. They were darker than I had thought they would be and all of the jet photos at the 600mm end had really bad vignetting. I know you will get some but I didn't expect that much. I was able to remove it all though in ACR and Photoshop. I think this may have been a rare case though as it was very overcast that day (tornado watch for most of the day). I was shooting Manual with Auto ISO and had set the limit to 800. Even at ISO 100 and 1/1250, F6.3, it was still quite dark . I should have at least went to 1600 and slowed down the shutter speed for the jets also but didn't realize how it would look. The prop planes shot at 1/100 second at 600mm so F18 and ISO 100 was still dark but not as bad. No idea why I was at F18. SMH Photos of people on the ground, however, at 1/2000, F6.3, ISO 800 at 600mm had minimal to no vignetting, sharp photos, and bright enough to not need any exposure adjustments.
3) Consider the size of the lens as well, like at the zoom ring. The 60-600 has a pretty big diameter so even my hand was sore from being so stretched out for most of the day. I do a lot of zooming still.
It's a mixed bag for me to be honest with this lens. Quality-wise, I think it's a great lens and I believe the photo issues were caused by me. The weight will be the biggest consideration. Sunday, I was considering switching over to mirrorless or staying DSLR but use the Sigma 150-600. I don't think I can afford to switch 2 cameras and 2 lenses to a mirrorless system any time soon (plus I worry about the rolling shutter on mirrorless which to me would be worse than dealing with a heavy lens) and it doesn't seem like the 150-600 is that much lighter and I like that extra range I get with the 60-600.
I do love the suggestion of renting first. If I had done that, there is a possibility I would've ended up with the 150-600. I'm never satisfied with the reach and am considering renting a 1.4x or 1.6x extender for a show and see how it works.
Sorry for the long answer but wanted to share as much as I could. Feel free to PM me for any questions.
My prior long lens was a Canon 100-400.
Pros:
1) Great range. The ability to shoot from 60 to 600 with one lens is amazing.
2) Image quality is good. With a better photographer, I'm sure it would be even better than what I got.
Cons:
1) It is heavy. It never felt too bad when wearing my set-up (consisting of a 1DX II with the Sigma lens and a 6D II with my 16-35mm for a total of about 17 lbs), but if I was shooting for a long period of time, there were a few times I felt my arm shaking from trying to hold it up (at the 600mm end). I was parked a mile from the flight line and even walking with it didn't feel bad. I do always hold the tripod foot on the Sigma though. That was all day of. Sunday morning I woke up sore and still some sore on Monday so it was definitely something I was not used to carrying. For me, most airshow shooting is aim the lens, pan with the plane for a few seconds to try to get that perfect shot, then rest again until the next pass so the weight for the most part is acceptable. I shot 5,000 photos in one day so way overshot on some sequences, thus holding the lens up longer than I needed to. One thing for me to learn is to be more selective and thoughtful of what photos I want before I start.
2) I was at first very disappointed when I got home and looked at the photos. They were darker than I had thought they would be and all of the jet photos at the 600mm end had really bad vignetting. I know you will get some but I didn't expect that much. I was able to remove it all though in ACR and Photoshop. I think this may have been a rare case though as it was very overcast that day (tornado watch for most of the day). I was shooting Manual with Auto ISO and had set the limit to 800. Even at ISO 100 and 1/1250, F6.3, it was still quite dark . I should have at least went to 1600 and slowed down the shutter speed for the jets also but didn't realize how it would look. The prop planes shot at 1/100 second at 600mm so F18 and ISO 100 was still dark but not as bad. No idea why I was at F18. SMH Photos of people on the ground, however, at 1/2000, F6.3, ISO 800 at 600mm had minimal to no vignetting, sharp photos, and bright enough to not need any exposure adjustments.
3) Consider the size of the lens as well, like at the zoom ring. The 60-600 has a pretty big diameter so even my hand was sore from being so stretched out for most of the day. I do a lot of zooming still.
It's a mixed bag for me to be honest with this lens. Quality-wise, I think it's a great lens and I believe the photo issues were caused by me. The weight will be the biggest consideration. Sunday, I was considering switching over to mirrorless or staying DSLR but use the Sigma 150-600. I don't think I can afford to switch 2 cameras and 2 lenses to a mirrorless system any time soon (plus I worry about the rolling shutter on mirrorless which to me would be worse than dealing with a heavy lens) and it doesn't seem like the 150-600 is that much lighter and I like that extra range I get with the 60-600.
I do love the suggestion of renting first. If I had done that, there is a possibility I would've ended up with the 150-600. I'm never satisfied with the reach and am considering renting a 1.4x or 1.6x extender for a show and see how it works.
Sorry for the long answer but wanted to share as much as I could. Feel free to PM me for any questions.
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Geez. I'm such an idiot. When I first read through the topic, I saw the photo of what you purchased and thought it was an ad so didn't pay enough attention and then replied with a long, useless response. hahaAdambadger88 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:46 pm Thank you all for your help and advice. I just purchased a Sigma 150-600MM F5-6.3 DG OS HSM | C. https://www.sigmaphoto.com/150-600mm-f5-6-3-dg-os-hsm-c
I am curious now if you have had a chance to use it at an airshow and what your thoughts are on it?
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Adambadger88
- Posts: 311
- Joined: Sat May 12, 2018 3:43 pm
I haven't used my lens yet. But, I will soon! I can give you other reviews for this same lens that I have that helped me in my decision making.
BEST Review - Sigma 150-600 Contemporary "Real World Review" (TEXT): https://froknowsphoto.com/sigma-150-600 ... ld-review/
Best Review - Sigma 150-600 Contemporary "Real World Review": YT:
Best Review on YouTube:
Other Reviews to this Similar Camera:
Best #1 (Jim Koepnick) : https://blog.sigmaphoto.com/2017/jim-ko ... hotograpy/
Best #2 (Jim Koepnick): https://blog.sigmaphoto.com/2021/all-th ... orts-lens/
Other (MIKE BUSCH): https://blog.sigmaphoto.com/2016/blue-a ... orts-lens/
Sigma 150-600 Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/jaredpoli ... 4247166962
Sigma 150-600 Contemporary "Real World Review" (TEXT): https://froknowsphoto.com/sigma-150-600 ... ld-review/
BEST Review - Sigma 150-600 Contemporary "Real World Review" (TEXT): https://froknowsphoto.com/sigma-150-600 ... ld-review/
Best Review - Sigma 150-600 Contemporary "Real World Review": YT:
Best Review on YouTube:
Other Reviews to this Similar Camera:
Best #1 (Jim Koepnick) : https://blog.sigmaphoto.com/2017/jim-ko ... hotograpy/
Best #2 (Jim Koepnick): https://blog.sigmaphoto.com/2021/all-th ... orts-lens/
Other (MIKE BUSCH): https://blog.sigmaphoto.com/2016/blue-a ... orts-lens/
Sigma 150-600 Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/jaredpoli ... 4247166962
Sigma 150-600 Contemporary "Real World Review" (TEXT): https://froknowsphoto.com/sigma-150-600 ... ld-review/
Last edited by Adambadger88 on Mon Apr 29, 2024 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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