YAM Wild Wednesday 2022

Discussion relating to 2022 airshows/fly-ins/exercises/other events. Post news before the event and post your photos afterwards! Please create only one thread per event.
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ClickJ
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Post by ClickJ » Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:19 am

Cripe, how’d I miss the Catalina on the schedule? I might have been able to arrange a trek to the east side.
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smalldude333
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Post by smalldude333 » Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:53 am

RyanS wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:18 am I'm debating between Ecorse and Denton, or Tyler Rd at the end of the runway. I don't really expect to get any great pics either way but I'd like to see the flying. Any thoughts?
I was at Ecorse yesterday. It was just okay; there was a big construction pile blocking some of the view of the runway.
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smalldude333
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Post by smalldude333 » Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:39 pm

C-130 not on the list anymore!
Last edited by smalldude333 on Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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robert16627
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Post by robert16627 » Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:33 pm

Anyone know what Airboss frequency is? TIA
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RyanS
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Post by RyanS » Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:29 pm

PMed you the frequency

For those who are curious, the show started despite the rain. Three passes each from the B-17 and PBY, then the CF-18 demo went except the jet took a bird to the engine on the opening cuban eight (BIG flame) so he did some burner 360s over the field to burn gas and a 1 engine landing. Then the rain was picking up with a cell on the way so they did two passes from the O-2 and another pass from the PBY, landed all and canceled the TFR.

I was surprised they got in what they did, well done to put on some level of show!
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Ryan Sundheimer
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Xray
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Post by Xray » Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:57 am

Don't know if you guys with scanners caught this, or from my vantage point I could not only hear it but see it as well, but there were some major miscommunications and errors combined with a birdstrike that nearly caused a disaster today.


Nice and sunny all day but as afternoon approached, became increasingly cloudy then rainy. The Yankee B-17 took off along with a Catalina and they did a few low passes, was surprised to see and hear the F-18 spooling up then taxi down the runway before they even landed. The weather has turned from steady drizzle to very light, and with a crowd paying $85 per vehicle, it was apparent they wanted to get the F-18 act in before weather shut down the show entirely.
The props landed and as soon as they were clear of the runway the F-18 received takeoff clearance and he didn't waste 1 second, went right up, did a climb out and split S, then came my way and climbed out right over me. Did another split S heading the other way and about midway down the runway I saw the right engine flame out. I didn't hear him declare an emergency but I assume he did, but my scanner was drowned out by the remaining engine.

So after he cleared enough for me to hear I heard it was a bird strike, and also that the pilot wanted to orbit around a bit to burn off fuel. So any engine loss would be an emergency but he was well in control.
Here is where the miscommunications almost caused a disaster.

As he was orbiting around there was a jet waiting for clearance to approach the runway and take off, call sign Medic 1. He was told about the emergency with the F-18 and to hold short of the runway. He was on tower freq, but the airspace was being controlled from the airboss freq, as usual for any airshow. So Medic 1 says to the tower, after being told to hold short of the runway, "Confirm you want me to maintain contact with you and airboss" Tower said "Negative, maintain contact with airboss 118.75" I picked this out off the bat, I even said to my uncle "That is the wrong freq", I have been using this for years and years at Ypsi airshows and it is 118.175.

So here comes the F-18, done with his fuel burn off, gear down and coming in low and fast over the trees, and Medic 1 makes a move for the runway ! Holy sugar, it was like a bad dream watching it play out. I didn't hear anyone wave off/abort the F-18 landing but he apparently saw the situation developing and aborted it himself, taking a sharp left turn and trying to gain speed and altitude. Mean time someone, not sure if it was tower or airboss, screamed at Medic 1 to stop and hold short, which he barely did, as it looked from my angle. He was mere feet from intruding on the runway.
To make matters even worse the Catalina, which does everything slow in the air or on the ground, was shortly before all this back taxi'ing up the runway, and finally cleared it as the F-18 was on short final, and as Medic 1 made a move for the active runway. To add even more complications, numerous taxiways and other runways were closed due to construction, with construction trucks on the move shortly before and during that to clear the area for the show.
So apparently the tower and airboss were in communication with numerous aircraft and trucks, and a hobbled fighter trying to land, and things went south.

I have no professional expertise in aviation, just a long time aircraft nut who has been to more airshows than I can count, I do know procedures and protocol pretty well. After the close call, after the F-18 was thankfully able to abort and go around and Medic 1 was ordered to hold short, Tower said "Medic 1, are you in contact with airboss ?" He said yes, 118.75. Heard some indecipherable chatter from tower, probably another guy saying thats not the right freq. He then asked airboss if he can hear Medic 1 and airboss said no, can't hear a thing. So in the mean time the F-18 was on short final again, they determined that Medic 1 was short of the runway and knew to hold and obviously he [F-18] was the priority at this time, that F-18 came in hotter than I have ever seen and with a sinkrate that must have been close to the edge of specs, and dropped on the runway like a brick, very relieved to see him land. I was expecting to see a gear blowup but he rolled and taxi'ed, good thing it wasn't an AF jet

Medic 1 then got his takeoff clearance and left. So there are some glaring oversights here, the main one being Medic 1 being given the wrong freq by the tower. But he would have had to had permission from somebody to go from holding short of the runway to going on the runway, right ? Especially since he knew of the emergency with the F-18. I heard no such clearance from anyone but ,,,, He could have well received it and I simply did not hear it due to being during one of the F-18 passes burning off fuel, thats what I am assuming. But then, who the hell gave him clearance with a hobbled F-18 coming in hot ?

Another possibility I thought of, as I said earlier, the Cat was in the mix taxi'ing up the runway at the same time all of this transpired. I did hear someone clearing him to the taxiway off the runway, and double checking that he was clear of the runway, as the F-18 was literally coming in hot on short final just as the Cat was clearing the runway. It is possible Medic 1 mistook this taxiway clearance for the Cat for his clearance to proceed to the runway. [edit: Now that I think about it, clearance, if he received it, could NOT have been from airboss, since he was on the wrong freq]

Don't know the answer, I know folks with authority at Ypsi post here, I stand ready to be corrected or corroborated with anything I have said, don't want to start any controversy but this was a serious mixup and will be investigated by the NTSB anyhow. If anyone has any updates or other info, feel free to post.
Last edited by Xray on Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Xray
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Post by Xray » Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:55 am

I'm debating between Ecorse and Denton, or Tyler Rd at the end of the runway. I don't really expect to get any great pics either way but I'd like to see the flying. Any thoughts?
Ecorse has lost its former glory IMO since they have apparently decided to block off that little service drive between Beck & Denton for good [used to only block that stretch for Blue Angels/Thunderbirds]. Denton itself stinks, far from the action, not many passes that way and a mosquito nightmare.
Don't know about from a photography standpoint but for pure viewing, Tyler field can't be beat. Could always close that off too, in that case there are not many good options.
There is a decent spot behind Tyler road [Gregory, is it ?] by a water treatment facility. Good view of aircraft in the air making runs but 0 view of the airport itself, blocked by trees. There are spots also on Michigan Ave right on the flight line, good for jets but often props don't even turn out that far.

I remember back in the day there were some good spots on the old Van Born Rd, they closed that stretch years ago. There used to be houses back there in what is now all woods and field, I guess they bought them all out, condemned them and tore them down. I had spots right on the flight line but, like many areas around the airport, hemmed in by trees.
Last edited by Xray on Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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robert16627
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Post by robert16627 » Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:01 am

Xray wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:57 am Don't know if you guys with scanners caught this, or from my vantage point I could not only hear it but see it as well, but there were some major miscommunications and errors combined with a birdstrike that nearly caused a disaster today.


Nice and sunny all day but as afternoon approached, became increasingly cloudy then rainy. The Yankee B-17 took off along with a Catalina and they did a few low passes, was surprised to see and hear the F-18 spooling up then taxi down the runway before they even landed. The weather has turned from steady drizzle to very light, and with a crowd paying $85 per vehicle, it was apparent they wanted to get the F-18 act in before weather shut down the show entirely.
The props landed and as soon as they were clear of the runway the F-18 received takeoff clearance and he didn't waste 1 second, went right up, did a climb out and split S, then came my way and climbed out right over me. Did another split S heading the other way and about midway down the runway I saw the right engine flame out. I didn't hear him declare an emergency but I assume he did, but my scanner was drowned out by the remaining engine.

So after he cleared enough for me to hear I heard it was a bird strike, and also that the pilot wanted to orbit around a bit to burn off fuel. So any engine loss would be an emergency but he was well in control.
Here is where the miscommunications almost caused a disaster.

As he was orbiting around there was a jet waiting for clearance to approach the runway and take off, call sign Medic 1. He was told about the emergency with the F-18 and to hold short of the runway. He was on tower freq, but the airspace was being controlled from the airboss freq, as usual for any airshow. So Medic 1 says to the tower, after being told to hold short of the runway, "Confirm you want me to maintain contact with you and airboss" Tower said "Negative, maintain contact with airboss 118.75" I picked this out off the bat, I even said to my uncle "That is the wrong freq", I have been using this for years and years at Ypsi airshows and it is 118.175.

So here comes the F-18, done with his fuel burn off, gear down and coming in low and fast over the trees, and Medic 1 makes a move for the runway ! Holy sugar, it was like a bad dream watching it play out. I didn't hear anyone wave off/abort the F-18 landing but he apparently saw the situation developing and aborted it himself, taking a sharp left turn and trying to gain speed and altitude. Mean time someone, not sure if it was tower or airboss, screamed at Medic 1 to stop and hold short, which he barely did, as it looked from my angle. He was mere feet from intruding on the runway.
To make matters even worse the Catalina, which does everything slow in the air or on the ground, was shortly before all this back taxi'ing up the runway, and finally cleared it as the F-18 was on short final, and as Medic 1 made a move for the active runway. To add even more complications, numerous taxiways and other runways were closed due to construction, with construction trucks on the move shortly before and during that to clear the area for the show.
So apparently the tower and airboss were in communication with numerous aircraft and trucks, and a hobbled fighter trying to land, and things went south.

I have no professional expertise in aviation, just a long time aircraft nut who has been to more airshows than I can count, I do know procedures and protocol pretty well. After the close call, after the F-18 was thankfully able to abort and go around and Medic 1 was ordered to hold short, Tower said "Medic 1, are you in contact with airboss ?" He said yes, 118.75. Heard some indecipherable chatter from tower, probably another guy saying thats not the right freq. He then asked airboss if he can hear Medic 1 and airboss said no, can't hear a thing. So in the mean time the F-18 was on short final again, they determined that Medic 1 was short of the runway and knew to hold and obviously he [F-18] was the priority at this time, that F-18 came in hotter than I have ever seen and with a sinkrate that must have been close to the edge of specs, and dropped on the runway like a brick, very relieved to see him land. I was expecting to see a gear blowup but he rolled and taxi'ed, good thing it wasn't an AF jet

Medic 1 then got his takeoff clearance and left. So there are some glaring oversights here, the main one being Medic 1 being given the wrong freq by the tower. But he would have had to had permission from somebody to go from holding short of the runway to going on the runway, right ? Especially since he knew of the emergency with the F-18. I heard no such clearance from anyone but ,,,, He could have well received it and I simply did not hear it due to being during one of the F-18 passes burning off fuel, thats what I am assuming. But then, who the hell gave him clearance with a hobbled F-18 coming in hot ?

Another possibility I thought of, as I said earlier, the Cat was in the mix taxi'ing up the runway at the same time all of this transpired. I did hear someone clearing him to the taxiway off the runway, and double checking that he was clear of the runway, as the F-18 was literally coming in hot on short final just as the Cat was clearing the runway. It is possible Medic 1 mistook this taxiway clearance for the Cat for his clearance to proceed to the runway. [edit: Now that I think about it, clearance, if he received it, could NOT have been from airboss, since he was on the wrong freq]

Don't know the answer, I know folks with authority at Ypsi post here, I stand ready to be corrected or corroborated with anything I have said, don't want to start any controversy but this was a serious mixup and will be investigated by the NTSB anyhow. If anyone has any updates or other info, feel free to post.


I'm not starting anything, just adding my two sense from the crew's perspective, I talked to the crew once they returned from their trip and Tower told them to contact airboss on said frequency and he will clear you for departure, they contact Airboss on whatever frequency and he has "Kalitta 34, cleared for takeoff turn left 300" so they start to move and once they do, airboss tells them to hold their position and they were a little bit past the Hold Short line but the O-2 across from them was just barely off the runway and they didn't have anything said or done to them but once they lined up, Airboss cleared them for departure and told them he was sorry for his miscommunication, which sounds like he took credit for it? but I highly doubt the FAA and/or the NTSB will get involved unless there were some real narcs out there.
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Xray
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Post by Xray » Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:29 am

I'm not starting anything, just adding my two sense from the crew's perspective, I talked to the crew once they returned from their trip and Tower told them to contact airboss on said frequency and he will clear you for departure, they contact Airboss on whatever frequency and he has "Kalitta 34, cleared for takeoff turn left 300" so they start to move and once they do, airboss tells them to hold their position and they were a little bit past the Hold Short line but the O-2 across from them was just barely off the runway and they didn't have anything said or done to them but once they lined up, Airboss cleared them for departure and told them he was sorry for his miscommunication, which sounds like he took credit for it? but I highly doubt the FAA and/or the NTSB will get involved unless there were some real narcs out there.
Lol haven't heard "narcs" since the 80's but I would think this would be classified as a near collision and I have seen less serious incidents investigated, lessons learned, conclusions drawn and recommendations made.
I would hope so, wouldn't want to see anyone fired, but giving a wrong freq is very serious and I would think some steps must be taken to greatly reduce the possibility of it happening again, with a much larger airshow approaching. I sure ain't gonna rat no one out but I am guessing something like this would be impossible to keep secret, even if that was desired. Canadian military pilot would do a debrief and include his observations on why he had to abort his 1st landing attempt, right ? Right. From there, an investigation would follow why the jet [I never heard the callsign Kalitta 34, I heard Medic 1] was about to intrude on an active runway with a hobbled fighter on short final.

I can tell you, you are mixed up in your sequence of events. Airboss said he had no contact with the aircraft that almost intruded. I'm not imagining this or making it up, I heard it plain as day and obviously must be on record. He was asked if he had contact and he replied no, none. It seems you and I may be talking about different aircraft possibly at a different time - And also, if you were on Eureka or in the crowd line, you wouldn't have seen much, from my vantage on Tyler it played out in front of my eyes and ears. I saw the F-18 coming in hot, I saw the jet lurch towards the runway from a holding position at the worse possibletime, I saw the F-18 abort his landing, and I heard the tower screaming at Medic 1 to stop and hold short, which he just barely did.
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